{"id":13953,"date":"2019-10-25T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-10-25T09:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/reasons.org\/thinking-rightly-about-god-ham-vs.-zweerink-follow-up-part-2\/"},"modified":"2019-10-25T09:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-10-25T09:00:00","slug":"thinking-rightly-about-god-ham-vs-zweerink-follow-up-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/reasons.org\/christianity\/bible\/thinking-rightly-about-god-ham-vs-zweerink-follow-up-part-2","title":{"rendered":"Thinking Rightly about God: Ham vs. Zweerink Follow-Up, Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"
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<\/p>\n

What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.<\/p>\n

A. W. Tozer, The<\/em> Knowledge of the Holy<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

The recent old-earth\/young-earth discussion<\/a> on Justin Brierley\u2019s Unbelievable?<\/a> podcast revealed a number of differences and similarities between Ken Ham and me. Two important areas of agreement are that we both care deeply about the authority of Scripture,1<\/sup> and we both want to spread the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Of our disagreements, the most significant relates to the topic of animal death. Ham thinks humanity is responsible for animal death. I think that ultimately, God shoulders that responsibility. Regardless of our differences when it comes to the old-earth\/young-earth debate, it is imperative that we think rightly about God\u2019s character. Since our views on animal death affect how we think about God, I thought it important to explore what Scripture has to say on this topic more deeply.<\/p>\n

Agreement on Human Death<\/strong><\/p>\n

One more point of agreement merits mention because it was unclear during the podcast. We both agree on our hermeneutic (or how to interpret Scripture) as well as the impact of human sin on humanity. I abide by the grammatico-historical method<\/a> that Ham espoused during our discussion. And we both agree that Adam and Eve\u2019s sin is responsible for all<\/em> human death and disease. Humanity\u2019s disobedience in the garden of Eden brought physical death, disease, hardship, and most importantly, spiritual death to all humanity. Interestingly, the Bible verses Mr. Ham quotes regarding this issue place the blame for those consequences on humanity (Romans 5:12<\/a>) and<\/em> God (Romans 8:22<\/a> when taken in context\u2014see Romans 8:20<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Ken Ham\u2019s View on Animal Death<\/strong><\/p>\n

According to Ken Ham\u2019s article about the podcast, animal death began after Adam and Eve disobeyed God. If animal death occurred before, he says, then \u201cdeath and suffering are simply part of the design of God\u2019s creation from the very beginning. Such an idea undermines the gospel . . . and calls into question the character and goodness of God.\u201d More directly, Ham states that \u201cif the earth is millions of years old, there is nobody else to blame in this regard! Humans weren\u2019t around to break God\u2019s very good creation, so it must be God\u2019s fault.\u201d<\/p>\n

He says that any biblical interpretation allowing the earth to be billions of years old compromises the authority of Scripture and attacks the character of God. As he states, \u201cOnce you start compromising, as Jeff does, on the clear teaching of Scripture, you\u2019re forced to reinterpret other parts of God\u2019s Word to make them fit with your beliefs. Believing in millions of years is actually an attack on the character of our God. (And yes, I said that during the radio debate.)\u201d<\/p>\n

I have tried to use Ham\u2019s own words to properly state his view. If I have misunderstood his position, please let me know and I will correct my misunderstanding.<\/p>\n

My View on Animal Death<\/strong><\/p>\n

While we agree regarding the impact of Adam and Eve\u2019s sin on humanity, we disagree on the extent of animal death. Specifically, we disagree on whether animals<\/em> died before humanity\u2019s sin in the garden and on who is responsible for that animal death. I would argue that the Bible places ultimate responsibility for animal death on God\u2019s shoulders, regardless of whether animal death started before or after humanity\u2019s sin. My position is that animals died before humanity disobeyed God.<\/p>\n

Ham exhorts us: \u201cinstead of adding man\u2019s ideas into Scripture, let\u2019s start with God\u2019s Word\u2014in all areas\u2014and interpret what we see in the world through the lens of Scripture.\u201d I agree! So, does the Bible say that man \u201cbroke\u201d God\u2019s very good creation regarding animal death? Or does Scripture portray animal death as part of God\u2019s very good creation?<\/p>\n

Biblical Statements Related to Animal Death<\/strong><\/p>\n

1. God chose to create a world where humans, including Jesus Christ, would die.
\n<\/em><\/p>\n

John 3:16<\/a>: \u201cFor God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.\u201d<\/p>\n

Acts 2:23<\/a>: \u201cThis man was handed over to you by God\u2019s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.\u201d
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

Unless we want to deny God\u2019s omniscience or sovereignty, God created knowing that humans would sin. Scripture makes it clear that God loved us so much that he created this universe knowing that he would send his Son so that we might have eternal life.<\/p>\n

2. \u201cVery good\u201d does not mean perfect.
\n<\/em><\/p>\n

Genesis 3:1<\/a>: \u201cNow the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, \u2018Did God really say, \u201cYou must not eat from any tree in the garden\u201d?’\u201d<\/p>\n

Revelation 21:27<\/a>: \u201cNothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb\u2019s book of life.\u201d<\/p>\n

Whatever \u201cvery good\u201d means, it cannot mean \u201cperfect.\u201d Eden was corruptible as history clearly shows. That fact stands in stark contrast to the incorruptible nature of the new creation.<\/p>\n

3. God killed animals to provide clothes for Adam and Eve, and Jesus killed a herd of pigs. <\/em><\/p>\n

Genesis 3:21<\/a>: \u201cThe Lord<\/span> God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.\u201d<\/p>\n

Matthew 8:32: <\/a>\u201c<\/span>He said to them, \u2018Go!\u2019 So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.\u201d<\/p>\n

4. God made the darkness for lions to prowl.<\/em><\/p>\n

Psalm 104:19\u201322<\/a>: \u201cHe made the moon for the seasons; the sun knows the place of its setting. <\/b>You appoint darkness and it becomes night, in which all the beasts of the forest prowl about. <\/b>The young lions roar after their prey and seek their food from God. When the sun rises they withdraw and lie down in their dens.\u201d<\/p>\n

Virtually every commentary recognizes Psalm 104 as a parallel description of the creation week. Specifically, the psalmist declares that part of God\u2019s order is light and dark. Furthermore, God ordained the dark to provide food for the carnivorous creatures he made.<\/p>\n

5. The psalmist praises God for his provision for and destruction of animals.<\/em><\/p>\n

Psalm 104:24\u201331<\/a>: \u201cO LORD<\/span>, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all; the earth is full of Your possessions. There is the sea, great and broad, in which are swarms without number, animals both small and great.<\/b> There the ships move along, and Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it. They all wait for You to give them their food in due season.<\/b> You give to them, they gather it up; you open Your hand, they are satisfied with good.<\/b> You hide Your face, they are dismayed; you take away their spirit, they expire and return to their dust. You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the ground. Let the glory of the LORD<\/span> endure forever; let the LORD<\/span> be glad in His works.\u201d<\/p>\n

6. The Bible repeatedly uses a lion as a metaphor for God.<\/em><\/p>\n

Hosea 5:14<\/a>: \u201cFor I will be like a lion to Ephraim, like a great lion to Judah. I will tear them to pieces and go away; I will carry them off, with no one to rescue them.\u201d<\/p>\n

See also Jeremiah 25:38<\/a>, Hosea 13:6\u201310<\/a>, Isaiah 38:13<\/a>, and Lamentations 3:10\u201312<\/a>. In fact, Revelation 5:5<\/a> explicitly refers to Jesus as the Lion of Judah!<\/p>\n

The Bottom Line<\/strong><\/p>\n

The Bible tells an unmistakable narrative of God creating a world where humanity would sin and Jesus would redeem us by his death on the cross. Repeatedly, the biblical authors use carnivorous creatures as metaphors for God, praise God for carnivorous activity, and describe God killing animals outside of atoning sacrifices. Looking just at what the Bible has to say, I find it difficult to come to the conclusion that animal death results from man\u2019s breaking God\u2019s \u201cvery good\u201d creation. The Bible is clear: God created everything and is in control of all that happens\u2014including animal death. Because of this important truth, nothing can stand in God\u2019s way. He will accomplish his sovereign purposes. Now that\u2019s a God worth worshipping!<\/p>\n

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Endnotes<\/h5>\n
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  1. Ken Ham\u2019s review of the debate says that it is<\/em>, in fact, \u201ca debate over authority,\u201d but that\u2019s not correct. I hold to the authority of Scripture as described in places like the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy<\/a> and in articles 2\u20135 of the Belgic Confession<\/a>. Also, Ham inaccurately describes my motives on at least one occasion. He states that \u201cthe only reason people like Dr. Zweerink try to add those years in Genesis is because of influences outside the Bible.\u201d That is not true. In fact, there are many biblical reasons I think the days in Genesis are much longer. You can see some of those in this article<\/a>. I take no offense that Ken Ham disagrees with me. However, I do object to the way he questioned the character of a Christian brother by falsely assigning incorrect motives.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n

    <\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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